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	<title>Comments on: Guest Columnists-Samantha Chrysanthou and Darwin Wiggett</title>
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	<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/</link>
	<description>thoughts on photography</description>
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		<title>By: Jay Goodrich</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-69</link>
		<dc:creator>Jay Goodrich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 20:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-69</guid>
		<description>Thank you very much! We always appreciate feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you very much! We always appreciate feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: Black and white photos</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-67</link>
		<dc:creator>Black and white photos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Jan 2010 22:30:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-67</guid>
		<description>This is a great site and I&#039;m happy to have found it. As a photographer, it&#039;s always nice to see other people&#039;s work and read about their tecnniques and such. Cheers!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great site and I&#8217;m happy to have found it. As a photographer, it&#8217;s always nice to see other people&#8217;s work and read about their tecnniques and such. Cheers!</p>
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		<title>By: Todd</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Sep 2009 17:19:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-54</guid>
		<description>Great article, it&#039;s more about Freedom vs. Facism in my opinion. I do find the purist typically way more vocal and facist about thier opinions than the Processors.

I would include a third term, the &quot;Producers&quot; these are people that are as good (and much of the time better) than the finest &quot;Purist&quot;, they understand art, composition and in-camera techinicals, but are also willing to work or rework their images to achieve their visions and produce the best possible images.

Those are always the images that hold my attention and that keep &quot;Producing&quot; ever greater works.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article, it&#8217;s more about Freedom vs. Facism in my opinion. I do find the purist typically way more vocal and facist about thier opinions than the Processors.</p>
<p>I would include a third term, the &#8220;Producers&#8221; these are people that are as good (and much of the time better) than the finest &#8220;Purist&#8221;, they understand art, composition and in-camera techinicals, but are also willing to work or rework their images to achieve their visions and produce the best possible images.</p>
<p>Those are always the images that hold my attention and that keep &#8220;Producing&#8221; ever greater works.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter McQuie</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-53</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter McQuie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 07:00:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-53</guid>
		<description>Well before we call a truce as the authors suggest, maybe we should consider an argument for not too much license in our photographic processes. Particularly if the truce proposed may be viewed to tilt in one direction--expression over representation, feeling over seeing.

Rather than two photographers by that mountain lake, let&#039;s imagine one photographer and one painter supremely skilled in a photorealistic style. And let&#039;s say the photographer is Ansel Adams, just for fun. The results of their efforts will be used in public relations campaign to urge reforming the laws governing the national forest service to replace their current goal of management with protection. Will the painter have a chance of getting her images used by the ad agency. No matter how good she is, the public will perceive the photographic images to be a more realistic representation. It is a strength of photography that a sharp, well conceived and composed photograph will be perceived by the public as a more accurate representation of nature deserving of preservation. It is a strength of the medium, not a weakness. 

Now lets say the image will be used for decorative purposes and the client wants a depiction of nature that feels emotionally true, but is visually unique. Great license to deviate from reality is given. The painter is a neo-impressionist. Can any photographer compete without a major degree of digital manipulation? Isn&#039;t there some point where most would agree that the manipulated image is no longer photography? If we are totally free to cross that line, don&#039;t we endanger our advantage in the first scenario. 

Human culture changes, perhaps evolves. Some folks adapt to change quicker than others. About a hundred years ago, Igor Stravinsky caused an uproar when his Rites of Spring was debuted. He broke the existing rules; the raw emotional power his music conveyed was too much for audiences to bear. Within a couple of decades, Walt Disney used some of Stravinsky&#039;s music in the a sequence in Fantasia. Many other movie soundtracks have used similar harmonic license to create moods of great tension. What was once rule breaking is now accepted. But not for everyday use. Overuse would rob it of its power to move us.

Of course, no two dimensional representation can duplicate what we see in real time. But photography is perceived to come closer than painting. And has benefited from that perception. Up until photoshop, most of the limitations on recreating reality were technical ones. Photographers worked within these limitations and still produced works that were widely considered art. Photographers can surely choose to veer further from reality with photoshop but may find that fewer people will be willing to consider that art. 

On his blog Darwin wrote about the two kinds of photographers that go out with him. One sees workshop as the opportunity to bag trophies and want to rush from one great location to another. The other wants to get out and have an experience in nature that they otherwise wouldn&#039;t, learn something about photography, and come back with some nice images. I worry that too many modern folks have an impression of wilderness that is based on awe inspiring trophy photographs, and that over the years it has taken more saturation and now more dynamic range for photographs to have that awe factor. Like if all movie soundtracks used Stravinsky, his music would lose its power to portray tension. If people are fed a steady diet of past Velvia saturation and even well done HDR all the time, would they appreciate the subtle beauties of an ordinary day in the forest. Or would they need a trip to the Canadian Rockies to feel the trip was worth it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well before we call a truce as the authors suggest, maybe we should consider an argument for not too much license in our photographic processes. Particularly if the truce proposed may be viewed to tilt in one direction&#8211;expression over representation, feeling over seeing.</p>
<p>Rather than two photographers by that mountain lake, let&#8217;s imagine one photographer and one painter supremely skilled in a photorealistic style. And let&#8217;s say the photographer is Ansel Adams, just for fun. The results of their efforts will be used in public relations campaign to urge reforming the laws governing the national forest service to replace their current goal of management with protection. Will the painter have a chance of getting her images used by the ad agency. No matter how good she is, the public will perceive the photographic images to be a more realistic representation. It is a strength of photography that a sharp, well conceived and composed photograph will be perceived by the public as a more accurate representation of nature deserving of preservation. It is a strength of the medium, not a weakness. </p>
<p>Now lets say the image will be used for decorative purposes and the client wants a depiction of nature that feels emotionally true, but is visually unique. Great license to deviate from reality is given. The painter is a neo-impressionist. Can any photographer compete without a major degree of digital manipulation? Isn&#8217;t there some point where most would agree that the manipulated image is no longer photography? If we are totally free to cross that line, don&#8217;t we endanger our advantage in the first scenario. </p>
<p>Human culture changes, perhaps evolves. Some folks adapt to change quicker than others. About a hundred years ago, Igor Stravinsky caused an uproar when his Rites of Spring was debuted. He broke the existing rules; the raw emotional power his music conveyed was too much for audiences to bear. Within a couple of decades, Walt Disney used some of Stravinsky&#8217;s music in the a sequence in Fantasia. Many other movie soundtracks have used similar harmonic license to create moods of great tension. What was once rule breaking is now accepted. But not for everyday use. Overuse would rob it of its power to move us.</p>
<p>Of course, no two dimensional representation can duplicate what we see in real time. But photography is perceived to come closer than painting. And has benefited from that perception. Up until photoshop, most of the limitations on recreating reality were technical ones. Photographers worked within these limitations and still produced works that were widely considered art. Photographers can surely choose to veer further from reality with photoshop but may find that fewer people will be willing to consider that art. </p>
<p>On his blog Darwin wrote about the two kinds of photographers that go out with him. One sees workshop as the opportunity to bag trophies and want to rush from one great location to another. The other wants to get out and have an experience in nature that they otherwise wouldn&#8217;t, learn something about photography, and come back with some nice images. I worry that too many modern folks have an impression of wilderness that is based on awe inspiring trophy photographs, and that over the years it has taken more saturation and now more dynamic range for photographs to have that awe factor. Like if all movie soundtracks used Stravinsky, his music would lose its power to portray tension. If people are fed a steady diet of past Velvia saturation and even well done HDR all the time, would they appreciate the subtle beauties of an ordinary day in the forest. Or would they need a trip to the Canadian Rockies to feel the trip was worth it?</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Johnson</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-52</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 15:32:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-52</guid>
		<description>One more voice of agreement and appreciation for this article and Jay&#039;s before it. I would say I fall more toward the Processor end of this spectrum - generally speaking, my goal is to produce an image that looks not &#039;like what I saw&#039;, but rather &#039;like what I felt&#039; when I took the photo. The viewer can&#039;t smell the pines or feel the spray of the falls, so I try to create an image within the limitations of 2D visual representation that will nonetheless evoke in the viewer some analog of the feeling that I experienced as I tripped the shutter. The feelings cannot be the same, but I hope the viewer feels richer for having experienced the analog.

(Betraying my geek roots, I think of this as a &quot;4-D+ to 2-D transform... :^D )

- Jack</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more voice of agreement and appreciation for this article and Jay&#8217;s before it. I would say I fall more toward the Processor end of this spectrum &#8211; generally speaking, my goal is to produce an image that looks not &#8216;like what I saw&#8217;, but rather &#8216;like what I felt&#8217; when I took the photo. The viewer can&#8217;t smell the pines or feel the spray of the falls, so I try to create an image within the limitations of 2D visual representation that will nonetheless evoke in the viewer some analog of the feeling that I experienced as I tripped the shutter. The feelings cannot be the same, but I hope the viewer feels richer for having experienced the analog.</p>
<p>(Betraying my geek roots, I think of this as a &#8220;4-D+ to 2-D transform&#8230; :^D )</p>
<p>- Jack</p>
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		<title>By: Alpenglow Images &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Marginalia</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-51</link>
		<dc:creator>Alpenglow Images &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Marginalia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Aug 2009 20:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-51</guid>
		<description>[...] Goodrich guest blogged on Darwin Wiggett&#8217;s blog.  In return, Darwin and Samantha Chrysanthou guest blogged for Jay, again on the acceptable uses of Photoshop in photography.  A very thoughtful [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Goodrich guest blogged on Darwin Wiggett&#8217;s blog.  In return, Darwin and Samantha Chrysanthou guest blogged for Jay, again on the acceptable uses of Photoshop in photography.  A very thoughtful [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Photoshop and Nature Photography: How Far is Too Far? &#124; jay &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-49</link>
		<dc:creator>Photoshop and Nature Photography: How Far is Too Far? &#124; jay &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 14:17:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-49</guid>
		<description>[...] Go here to read the rest: Photoshop and Nature Photography: How Far is Too Far? &#124; jay &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Go here to read the rest: Photoshop and Nature Photography: How Far is Too Far? | jay &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Aswirly</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-48</link>
		<dc:creator>Aswirly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Aug 2009 02:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-48</guid>
		<description>Boy, what a great article and topic. Lying somewhere in the middle myself it&#039;s hard for me to understand why people are so quick to get hot about whether an image is &quot;manipulated&quot; or &quot;pure&quot;.  What you say about black and white photography not showing reality is brilliant. 

To me, the camera is a tool, and digital processing software is another tool. Tools to create beautiful art. In the end, it&#039;s the final image that matters regardless of how you created it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Boy, what a great article and topic. Lying somewhere in the middle myself it&#8217;s hard for me to understand why people are so quick to get hot about whether an image is &#8220;manipulated&#8221; or &#8220;pure&#8221;.  What you say about black and white photography not showing reality is brilliant. </p>
<p>To me, the camera is a tool, and digital processing software is another tool. Tools to create beautiful art. In the end, it&#8217;s the final image that matters regardless of how you created it.</p>
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		<title>By: Twitted by akphotograph</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>Twitted by akphotograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-47</guid>
		<description>[...] This post was Twitted by akphotograph [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This post was Twitted by akphotograph [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uncommon Depth &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Age Old Debate</title>
		<link>http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/2009/08/guest-columnists-samantha-chrysanthou-and-darwin-wiggett/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncommon Depth &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Age Old Debate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Aug 2009 17:24:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jaygoodrich-blog.com/?p=721#comment-46</guid>
		<description>[...] Chrysanthou and Darwin Wiggett have written an excellent article for Jay Goodrich&#8217;s blog on  Photoshop and Nature Photography. The article deals with the age old debate of purist photographers and the biases against any [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chrysanthou and Darwin Wiggett have written an excellent article for Jay Goodrich&#8217;s blog on  Photoshop and Nature Photography. The article deals with the age old debate of purist photographers and the biases against any [...]</p>
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